I'm finding the points total to be really restrictive, however, because I want to include a Trygon -- Which really means I have to include two, and there's a third of my army gone.
The other thing I'm struggling with is where to fit Genestealers in. I want them to outflank, but if I do, I want the Swarmlord along for the +1 to reserves and the re-roll. Does anyone have success infiltrating them, walking them up or outflanking them without bonuses?
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| Put me in, coach! |
I also haven't been able to visualize a conversion for a Mycetic Spore, so I don't know that I can put my zoanthropes in. Does anyone have any experience with scuttling them up the table behind friendly units? Or is that just crazy talk?
Anyhow, I'll shoot out two lists for now. I'm not 100% happy with either, but I figure they'll get nicely dissected here and hopefully that can help my though process along.
List #1: Swarmlord and two Trygons, or 'How to not make friends!'
Swarmlord w 2x Tyrant Guard (nekkid)
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
Tervigon w/ Adrenal, Toxin, Catalyst
10 Termagants
10 Genestealers w/ Toxin Sacs
- 1 Broodlord, Toxin Sacs (11 models)
Trygon w/ Adrenal
Trygon w/ Adrenal
This list doesn't have a lot of models, and I'm a little wary of how well I'd be able to score objectives. Not bad for kill points, though...
The Plan:
Swarmy, 'Gants and Terv scuttle up the middle together, with gants providing cover, Terv providing FNP, Swarmy providing an excellent distraction. Realistically there's not much that can beat him in CC, so at least I've build a core that's threatening, and objectives can be scored by the Terv/Terms.
Hive Guard go on each side and scuttle up moving between cover until they've got a good position
Stealers outflank. The plan with them is to neutralize a threatening backfield unit i.e. Long Fangs, then find an objective in cover, in the enemy's deployment zone. If it's annihilation, they can hopefully cause some havoc in the backfield. Broodlord is in there to provide ablative wounds with a 4+ armor save, and possibly neutralize an enemy IC in assault.
Trygons either go up the flanks or potentially deepstrike depending on the amount of firepower on the other side of the board!
I'm concerned that packing Swarmy and two Trygons into a 1500 point list isn't going to win me any sportsmanship points, though.
List #2: More models, more balance, less focus!
Prime w/ Bonesword, Lashwhip
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
Terv w/ Adren, Toxin, Catalyst
11 Termagants
8 Stealers, Toxin, 1 Broodlord (9 models)
8 Stealers, Toxin, 1 Broodlord (9 models)
20 Gargoyles w Toxin Sacs
Trygon w/ Adren
Trygon w/ Adren
More bodies on the field, but less focused!
The Plan:
Prime has to go with either Hive Guard, 'Gants or 'Stealers. He can go with Stealers if we're marching the whole thing up the board.
This list has the advantage in terms of target priority. There's nothing in the list that you can ignore (except the 'Gants in KP missions, but even then, not really), and there are a lot of targets. The Trygons are the only thing that can deal with AV14, sure, but in a 1500 point game if they can take out both Trygons, they're leaving the rest of the army intact, so hopefully I can ignore their AV14 and chomp chomp the rest of their army.
The plan here is to walk straight up the board (surprise!) going from cover to cover. The Gargoyles are a bit out of place in terms of speed, but they have the advantage of being a wonderful screen, and being able to leapfrog over friendly units to shoot and then assault, most likely at full strength.
I'm a bit concerned by my lack of Venomthrope in this army, and would consider trading in a few things to plunk one in the back. It either gives a cover save and its other benefits, or it gives another unit that you can't really ignore.
Alright party people, dissect away!
Elites:
ReplyDeleteHive guard x 3
150
Zoanthropes x 3
180
Venomthropes x2
110
Troop 10 stealers x 2
280
10 gaunts
50
Tervigon (upgrades)
210
Trygon
fc
Trygon
fc
Double bone alpha warrior
If you want trygons and genies at 1500... It's doable. Let's see what we can do.
ReplyDeleteHQ
Tyranid Prime
Boneswords
90
Elites
3 Hive Guard
150
2 Hive Guard
100
2 Hive Guard
100
Troops
10 Genestealers
Toxin Sacs
170
10 Genestealers
Toxin Sacs
170
10 Termagants
50
10 Termagants
50
Fast Attack
3 Raveners
Rending Claws
105
3 Raveners
Rending Claws
105
Heavy Support
Trygon
Adrenal Glands
210
Trygon
200
If you want to run Trygons and stealers at 1500 this is the best I can do. You get no Tervigons because they're too slow and defensive (by nature of being bubblewrap factories). To be honest, Trygons are too slow for stealers, but they're the best MC you can run with them (I wouldn't run any tbh).
Of course, this is very rough as it took me 2 minutes, but it's my first gut instinct. :3
If you drop a couple of stealers in list one you could take devourers on the 10 termagants [treble firepower]. I'm curious as to folks choice of toxin sacs on the Stealers. Adrenal/toxin sacs are a notorious debate but on Stealers I reckon Adrenal wins. Even the lowly stealer can take out a tank with Adrenal and the Broodlord goes even more insane.
ReplyDeleteSwarmlord costs waay to much in smaller point games. TBH I've never missed the reserve bonus, but if you want it for cheap consider a Tyrant with Tyrant Guard and hive commander.
ReplyDeleteI'd go with your second list; you may want to consider trading the prime for a parasite to help synapse on your gargs and trygons..
ReplyDeleteI'm digging the first list in the comments there, with the vthrope... I'd probably run that with bsword/LW instead of double bsword.
ReplyDelete@nomad:
Good looking list, I'm interested in the inclusion of Raveners, though... Won't they just zip out of synapse? And are they that effective even with RC?
Speaking of synapse, that list looks a little bit light on it, and I've heard that in general Hive Guard are most efficient in pairs.
@Dwez: I love the idea of devourer 'gants, but I'd be leery about taking them on foot in 10's, I'd be more interested in 20 of them in a pod in an all-deepstrike army.
As for the toxins, we all love them on stealers because they're s4, so they re-roll on just about everything, and that means they get 2 chances to rend. Not as good for taking down vehicles, but they become much more of a threat to elite CC units through sheer weight of dice.
@Mercer: Swarmy's a tall order at 1500, I know. I think, though, that I wouldn't bother too much with a Tyrant if it's not him at 1500, just stick with a prime and load up on the models.
@Ghostin: Parasite! I love it! Hadn't even thought of him. I know he's not perfect because of T4 etc, but that could be just tons of fun and hopefully all the S8 weapons are busy shooting at zoanthropes, trygons, etc.
@All: So do we have consensus that Swarmlord can't be done in 1500?
Atreyu I don't get to play many games so I hadn't realised the advantage of that re-roll to wound. Not having any Hive Guard and only one Zoanthrope we use the Genestealers for light mech [unlike most people] and it's been effective. They probably work much better for the way you run them but we don't play enough for it to be an issue or to suddenly grasp these advantages.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Dev gaunts, 20 of them in a pod would be awesome but when you just need a squad of 10 Termagants to get the Tervigon as Troop it seems rude not to give them the devourers when all the rest are gonna poop out with Fleshborers. I never worry too much about numbers which is why we have only one Trygon - "heresy" I hear you say but I would respond with "tahts a different war altogether" ;)